Interview of Baloch pro-freedom leader Hyrbyair Marri by Boriwal Kakar

‘As you know there are many in Balochistan. They believe that Balochistan’s occupation is being maintained through the barrel of gun; hence, Balochistan liberation will also flow through the barrel of gun,’ says Hyrbiar Marri. Son of the late Khair Bux Marri, Hyrbiar is a known spokesperson for Baluchistan national struggle. Read on:

Basically what in your view is Balochistan’s problem?

In 1947 when Balochistan got independence and it stayed independent for nine months, Pakistan’s founding father, Muhammad Ali Jinnah wanted our Khan to accede to Pakistan. The Khan sought the advice of the Baloch parliament. The House of Lords as well as the House of Commons advised the Khan against accession to Pakistan. The parliament believed that being an independent country, with a distinct culture and language, Balochistan should not accede to Pakistan merely on religious grounds. On March 27, 1948 Pakistan invaded Balochistan whereupon the Khan was forced to sign the treaty of accession. The Baloch did not want it. Accession to Pakistan was secured under duress. The Baloch nation has refused to accept the forced accession. We believe we are an occupied land. We view Pakistan as an occupying force. We want the world to know that it was an illegal occupation of Baloch land. We want the international community to support us in the way it lent support to Kuwait against Iraqi occupation.

In Baluchistan, disappearances of political activists and political assassinations have become a norm. Thousands have gone missing or been killed. For the last 65 years, extra-judicial killings have been a routine. Nobody is taking any notice. This is indeed sad. When Kosovo was subjected to Serbian oppression, the European Union and rest of the world came to Kosovo’s rescue. Not merely Serbian atrocities were checked, but an army was also dispatched to guard Kosovo against Serbia. Likewise, the Australian army arrived to defend East Timor against Indonesia. Balochistan, however, is being ignored. Through its fanatic groups, Pakistan is blackmailing the Baloch people. Also, it is blackmailing civilized European countries so that these countries do not support the Baloch cause.

What are exactly your demands?

I am struggling for an independent Balochistan. It is a fundamental right of every human being and every nation to enjoy freedom. The Baloch were an independent nation. Balochistan was a sovereign state. Pakistan occupied it. Ironically, Pakistan demands self-determination for the people of Kashmir but it has occupied Baloch country. However, we demand neither a referendum nor self-determination. We want an unconditional withdrawal of Pakistan from Balochistan.

Unlike separatists, the number of Baloch willing to live with Pakistan constitutes a majority. Your comments.

The so-called general elections last year were boycotted in Baluchistan on the call of Baloch nationalists. Look at the turn out. It was five to seven percent. Over ninety percent boycotted. This in itself was a vote for independence.

In your view, the Balochistan Assembly is not legitimate?

Not at all. Firstly, the Balochistan Assembly is a creation of an occupier. Secondly, the Baloch did not elect it. They utterly lack the legitimacy. The occupier has imposed them on Balochistan. Some members of the Balochistan Assembly reached the floor of house by bagging 400 to 600 votes. One cannot reach a district-level government to represent a constituency. In other words, they lack legitimacy. Had they been genuine representatives, they would have demanded freedom for the Baloch people. But they are slaves to Pakistan.

Your real brother is a member of Balochistan Assembly?

I agree. Also, I consider every Baloch a brother. However, one who accepts Pakistani slavery is not my brother no matter who he is.

I hope you remember that you have also been a member of the same Balochistan Assembly?

True. However, a rational person is one who on realizing a mistake does not repeat it. This is what you also call experience. I realized that the Balochistan Assembly is only a platform to seduce and bribe the Baloch representatives. We were not allowed to speak about or demand Baloch liberation. Through this platform, we were made to think individually instead of collectively. When I realized that being Baloch I am not allowed to struggle for Balochistan, I boycotted it. I have been telling others as well about my experiences.

Did you make a mistake?

No. Even my elders contested elections and were elected for the Baluchistan Assembly. Afterwards, they also advised us to stay away. However, call it Baloch magnanimity or large heartedness that we wanted to give even our occupier a chance. After all, they were invoking Islam and Muslim brotherhood. But it was all a ploy. They committed Bengali genocide in which three million Bengalis were butchered while two hundred thousand women were raped in East Pakistan. They—either as an army or as a nation— have nothing to do with Islam. Their mind-set reflects their occupying nature. They submit before a mighty power while trying to dominate the weak ones. These Pakistanis know nothing about brotherhood.

Do you believe in democracy?

Sure. I perfectly believe in democracy.

How come, when you went in exile instead of staying in Balochistan, contesting elections and raising a voice for Baloch rights from the floor of the house?

As far as Pakistani democracy is concerned, it is a sham democracy. I want a democratic system for an independent Baluchistan. I do not want the kind of autocracy practiced in Gulf sheikhdoms. I want democracy. One person, one vote. Even the son of a poor shepherd, if capable, should have the right to vote and to be elected. . All will have equal voting right. I believe in equality and democracy. I am not for the rule of kings.

Can you tell us, if possible, on how many fronts Baloch nationalists are fighting?

One front consists of Baloch exiles. Here in exile, me and my friends are highlighting the Baloch plight to draw world attention. We are pointing out to the world that Pakistan that always invokes Islam has occupied a Muslim land. Balochistan itself is the other front. Many are engaged in peaceful struggle. Ghulam Muhammad, for instance, formed a non-violent organisation. Still he was martyred. Lala Mir is yet another case. In Balochistan, they do not differentiate between a nationalist engaged in armed struggle and the ones practicing peaceful means. Anybody demanding an independent Balochistan is extra-judicially killed. This unIslamic, inhuman policy Pakistan is pursuing in Baluchistan.

What about armed groups? Who are they? How many are there?

As you know there are many. They believe that Baluchistan’s occupation is being maintained through the barrel of gun; hence, Balochistan liberation will also flow through the barrel of gun.

Which path in your view is useful? The one you are treading or the one followed by armed resistance groups?

Everyone has to follow tactics according to the place one happens to be. We in exile are promoting the Baloch cause so that the world realizes our plight. Those on the ground in Balochistan are better placed to decide for themselves. They on realizing that negotiations lead nowhere have taken up the other path.

Mr Marri! You are struggling for the freedom of Balochistan as is Allah Nazar Baloch. However, you happen to be in London while he is holed up in mountains. You two lead two very different lives.

You are right. We lead two different lives. He is leading a difficult life. There are the troubles of everyday life. He risks his life while we enjoy the safety of London. However, we have been asked to highlight the Baloch cause internationally. But this is how it is. We all cannot be at the same place. Representatives of a country are present all over the place. But all we are doing is done in consultation among friends.

Are you saying that you consult each other?

I am not saying I consult Dr Allah Nazar Baloch. I have friends who happen to be in Baluchistan. On their advice, in consultation with them, I am here in London.

Do you remain in contact with Doctor Allah Nazar?

A Not very much

Do you disagree with his struggle?

There is no disagreement

Then why don’t you adopt his way?

Which one? The way to the mountains?

Yes.

God willing we will go into the mountains when the time comes. I was earlier in the mountains and spent quite a long time in the mountains of Afghanistan and Balochistan. We are not alien to mountains. In the mountains, I met my many friends. I was there in the 80s and 90s. Even in 2000, I spent some time there. Now when the time comes, there will be fight in the mountains.

We also have to counter the international propaganda they have done against us. We have to stand in front of them. It was propagated in London that my thinking is jihadi and I am associated with a jihadi organisation. It was propaganda by Pakistanis. It took a long time to counter it and make the world understand that we are neither fanatic people nor jihadis, and we are not thinking like this. The jihadi and fanatic people have in fact kill Baloch people.

As you say that you will go into the mountains when the time comes, does it mean Doctor Allah Nazar has gone to the mountains before the time?

I did not talk of mountains. I will go to Balochistan. Whether there are mountains or deserts. I am talking of going to Balochistan.

You are saying that you have no disagreement with the other groups including the ones led by Brahmdagh and Dr Allah Nazar…

Yes. There is no disagreement with regard to freedom for Balochistan. There might be other differing points, but on the question of freedom, we are on the same page.

Is there an alliance?

No. There is not an alliance among us. Our thinking is one. There was an alliance earlier with Nawab Bugti. If that is called alliance, we had been doing some work together. Now there is no formal or informal alliance as usch.

Many people particularly the youth of Baloch nation might have been thinking how you will unite the Baloch nation when there is no unity among you, Brahmdagh and Dr Allah Nazar?

The Baloch nation is united. However, even the members in the British Parliament are not united. It is unfortunate for us when the slave and weak nation has a difference of opinion; the world calls it disagreement, whereas when such happens in Europe it is called diversity. It is democracy of thinking. The country is flourishing as everyone has his/her own opinion. They are not enemies of each other.

Which viewpoints of the Balochistan National Party of Akhtar Mengal and the National Party of Doctor Abdul Malik do you oppose?

A worship of Pakistan by these parties. Both parties do the politics of provincialism and Pakistan. They have acknowledged slavery. It is their policy.

Do you support or oppose the mega projects in Balochistan?

I would have been in favour of these projects if these were in free Balochistan. But an occupier is running it according to its needs. Even it has sublet certain projects to China and Singapore. These countries they have been allowed to do everything, even to commit theft, but give Pakistan a share in it. It is their policy. Neither Pakistan nor China are the owners of this land. Both are joining hands in committing the theft. They are exploiting Balochistan. This is the reason we are against these projects.

When the Baloch people have accepted these projects, why oppose them?

The Baloch nation was not asked what it wanted. The Baloch people know that these projects are not in their favour. The people of Gwadar are not being given land in Gwadar but outsiders are getting the land. This itself is a big tragedy with the Baloch nation.

Don’t you think Baloch people are not benefitting from these projects?

No. It is only the destruction of Balochistan. What is the benefit? Even the labour is being brought from outside. The owners are outsiders. The decision makers are from outside. The outsiders are taking the revenue. There are some people in Balochistan who worship Pakistan as I have also said earlier, they have benefitted perhaps. Zafarullah Jamali had said that he waived the revenue of gas to the federal government a few years back. So they will bring forth such a person who will say that he does not need revenue and give it to the federal government. They are working for personal gains. These people do not think for Balochistan.

Do you have a hand in any way in attacks on these projects in Baluchistan?

I am not anti-state. I am demanding freedom. It is a pro-freedom and anti-occupier movement. They are occupiers. I have no hand in these attacks.

Can it be said that you are in favour of these attacks?

I will speak in favour of these attacks keeping in view the attacks on Baloch people first. All of this should be seen according to the international law. A land is occupied and jet planes and tanks are used there. In such situation, the Baloch people are not launching attacks but defending themselves, their women and children. I say every nation should have right to defence.

Common settlers are also being killed.

It has to be contextualised. There is a war going on; a war for freedom. In the war, there is always collateral damage. In Afghanistan, America says there is collateral damage. They are so precise. They have laser-guided planes, even then civilians become victims. Baloch people are defending themselves. They have no intention to kill any poor man. It is not Baloch culture to harm the poor and helpless people. It is the culture of Pakistan to harm weak people and Bangladesh is a big example.

There is also an increase in sectarian violence. What do you think of it?

It has been unleashed by Pakistan. Once Pakistan considered Afghanistan its fifth province and sent militants who wrought destruction all over Afghnaistan. The same doctrine, the same approach is being applied in Baluchistan. The idea is to make people fight each other. The violence in Balochistan is state-sponsored. It is sponsored by Military Intelligence and the ISI. They are behind it. The sectarian elements were never caught while Baloch people are being killed in their hundreds. The world should understand that sectarianism is state-sponsored phenomenon and they are exporting it everywhere. Whether it is India, Russia or Chechnya, they are exporting terrorism everywhere. Rumours have it that terrorist groups have been sent to Syria.

The central government of Pakistan has given power to Dr Abdul Malik Baloch to hold talks with those who want freedom, including you. Would you hold talks?

First, I would say that the central government which has delegated power to Dr Malik, is itself powerless before the Pakistani military.

What proof with regard to power you want? They say that they are the elected government.

The previous government and Asif Ali Zardari were also the elected ones. Asif Ali Zardari was openly saying that the military had asked him that he could talk about KPK but he could not talk about Balochistan as that was beyond his authority.

The situation in Balochistan is not good; likewise the situation in KPK and Sindh is not ideal either. Why only you are talking about freedom, and they do not think like you?

Sindh is talking about its freedom. I say with sorrow that KPK is not raising its voice. They have a long and proud history of association with Afghanistan. They have forgotten their Afghan brethren. The Britain divided a country into two parts. They are accepting the slavery happily. It is the matter of sorrow. But we were an independent state, neither we were part of India nor Afghanistan. We had our separate status. The British came in 1839 and Balochistan was free before that. When the British went, we again got freedom. Then Pakistan occupied. There is a Pashtun area in Balochistan; we invite them to join Afghanistan or KPK. We will be happy the way our Pashtun brethren are happy.

What will be the solution to the Balochistan issue in your view?

In my view, Balochistan was free so it should be given freedom. During the recent earthquake, the victims in the Baloch areas refused to accept Pakistani aid. This aid was also begged by Pakistan from somewhere else. Pakistani soldiers are killers of Baloch people. FC is a murderer of Balochs. The Baloch population refused to accept the aid. There is no way except freedom. Pakistanis should also be aware that Baloch are not demanding anything less than freedom. Freedom is the right of the Baloch nation.

What if Islamabad convinces the National Party and such other people to hold a referendum in Balochistan?

They had not made Balochistan their part by a referendum. They came with cannons and tanks. If they had made Balochistan their part with a referendum, they would also quit with a referendum but they occupied forcefully. Now they have to go unconditionally without a referendum. A referendum for separation is held where the referendum was also held for accession. Now the military has to leave without a referendum.

http://viewpointonline.net/2014/07/vp … baluchistan-hyrbiar-marri

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This is an unpublished transcript of Nawabzada HyrbiarMarri’s interview with BoriwalKakar of RFE/RL’s Radio Mashaal. This interview was conducted in October 2013. Radio Mashaal is broadcasting for the Pashtun areas along the Durand Line. BoriwalKakar tweets at @Boriwalkakar.